Dr. Bruce Lipton
Interview with Lotus Guide
Bruce and I started our conversation by talking about imaginative cells, which is what biologists call the specialized cells that are part of the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. The importance of this process cannot be underestimated because humanity itself is part of a metamorphosis process that is going on right now. And to understand this process is also to understand the seemingly chaotic world that we live in. If we ever expect to transition to the next level of human evolution we must understand how nature works. Why? Because we are part of nature. So I encourage you to visit https://www.youtube.com/user/LotusGuide to watch the entire interview with Bruce Lipton, in which we cover this subject in depth.
Lotus Guide: Why do you think the world appears as if it’s falling apart and is this a good thing?
Bruce Lipton: Well, this is the good thing about where we’re at. We are in the late stages of transition from a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. People ask me, “But look at the world; it’s falling apart and there are too many people and everything is collapsing.” And I say, “Great,” because we’ve created a world that is completely unsustainable. Science is already revealing that if we stay on this course we will become extinct and in fact we are in the 6th greatest extinction event in history. It’s human behavior that is the underlying factor in most of the environmental problems that we face today.
Einstein once said that we will never solve the problems from the same level of thinking that created the problems. Then, you might ask, what created the problems. The answer to that is our educational systems, our governments, our economic institutions, and our religious institutions because we’ve been following their cultural lead. Now we have reached a dead end and we know that if we continue on this course we will become extinct on this planet. So we have a choice—either follow the same institutions, or rebuild a new civilization that’s more in alignment with sustainability.
It’s clear that the very institutions that we are depending on to help us are the very institutions that are causing the problem. So to change this there is only one way. It must collapse in the same way that the caterpillar must collapse and disintegrate to rebuild. This is where it gets into the imaginative cells and the caterpillar-becoming-a-butterfly example that we were talking about. In today’s world, imaginative cells are the people who can think out of the box. So now for the first time we have a choice—we can either follow the old way to extinction or create a foundation for a new sustainable world.
What we need to do is we need to stop feeding the old system and stop trying to fix it because it’s doing what it needs to do, which is in alignment to the natural process of evolution. So the answer is to start creating new communities and living according to new ideals. And this is what’s happening around the world in small communities. And what you and Dhara do with your magazine is very important because it’s getting this information out there because we must get a new understanding to the world.
LG: I’ve always liked what Lewis Thomas had to say in The Lives of a Cell, which was a lot of the inspiration to an author named Ken Carey who wrote Starseed Transmissions. In his book he talks about something he calls “Islands of the Future,” which are small conscious communities that come together with the explicit purpose of receiving and transmitting higher-consciousness frequencies and disseminating them into the community in such a way that the average person who is struggling to keep a job and feed his children can understand. This planet is receiving a lot of high-frequency information right now and it’s this information that needs to be brought down and put into language that can be understood by the general public. This is why independent media and people like yourself writing books is so important, because you’re bringing high-frequency information down into linguistic forms.
Let’s face it, most people don’t understand the complexities of string theory, parallel worlds, or the holographic theories of how reality itself is projected onto the field of our awareness, and to be able to give them a spark of understanding is all it takes sometimes to open a person’s mind to higher realities.
BL: And this is instrumental in helping people step outside of fear because the institutions that we have today are flawed and their very survival depends on supporting the old worldview. They know that their survival is in jeopardy; they can see that the collapse is coming. For instance the health-care system, it’s not taking care of anyone. It’s all about making money and has very little to do with the health of an individual. This puts a terrible burden on the doctors and nurses who are dedicated to helping people.
Then there’s the educational system that’s pumping out students but not preparing them for the world they’re entering. There is a very fundamental principle at work here; any organization that starts out helping people has a mission. And of course this organization needs to grow because its mission is very important. For this mission to succeed, the organization needs a structure and as the structure grows it needs to be administered, and before you know it the mission becomes supporting and maintaining the organization and less about the original mission. Colleges and universities are a good example. Most universities are about making money and what does making money have to do with educating people?
And the health-care institution—this has very little to do with helping people and almost everything to do with making money, the bottom line. Then you have religion and people like Mother Teresa, who was out there trying to help people and you have the pope in this huge structure saying, “Hey, we have to pay the rent here!” Then the work of Mother Teresa becomes secondary. Every institution that has started out to help us finds itself in the same situation.
LG: I was just reading a report that I found curious. It was pointing out the disparity between hospitals in the United States. If you go into a hospital in Arkansas from a heart attack you’re going to pay a little over $3,000. If you go into a hospital in Arizona the same situation will cost a little over $91,000. So it’s completely ridiculous to think that medicine is evolving in a direction with a mission to help people. It’s all about making money in most cases.
BL: Then we could also talk about the cancer-research industry. Think of how many billions of dollars that have gone into cancer research and then think about what techniques we are using to treat cancer. We’re using the exact same techniques that we were using in 1930: chemo, radiation, and surgery. The death rate for cancer is almost the same as it’s been for the past 80 years. And this is after hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on research. I’m sorry to say but the only people that medicine is set up to help are the shareholders. (Bruce goes into this subject in depth in the video interview and brings out some very subtle but profound points about the system.) A good example of the ramifications of the health-care system is the fact that 60 percent of bankruptcies are due to people who can’t afford to pay their medical bills. That means that you could lose in a couple of months everything that you’ve worked for and saved because you needed health care that you couldn’t afford. As it is, the system is inhumane and the profit should be eliminated from the system because too much of what’s going on is profit oriented.
The truth is, people need to start taking care of themselves and being responsible for their own health. We’ve lived on this planet for thousands of years without a health-care system. Of course then you get people saying, “But look what health care has done for us; we’re living longer and healthier.” But here’s the catch. It’s actually nutrition and sanitation that have been responsible for most of the advances in our health. Then they say that we are living longer but the truth is people have always lived to 90 or 100 years, but how they come up with their figures is by factoring in everyone who has been born with everyone who has died, so if you factor in a newborn who died with a person who lived 100 years, the average age is 50 years old, which doesn’t represent reality. And people aren’t dying as young as they used to, so that alone increases the average age. Some interesting statistics are things like we pay some of the highest rates for health care and are one of the sickest nations on the planet.
Recent polls have looked at 43 of the top nations of the world and asked what percentage believe in evolution, and it turned out that the United States is 42 out of 43. Turkey was the only country that had fewer people that believed in evolution than we did. And if you think our Congress represents the people, consider the fact that 95 percent of the people wanted background checks on anyone buying guns and it didn’t pass. (You really need to listen to what Bruce has to say about the health-care system and intelligence in the United States; we need to pay attention to the details.)
LG: And you know, just to touch on the health-care industry again, there is the dark secret that no one likes to really talk about, but it’s clear to anyone who looks at it that the health-care system doesn’t make money on two groups of people—the people who are healthy and the people who are dead. So everything is geared to keep you somewhere in the middle without actually killing you, especially when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry. I know this sounds a bit dark but you have to consider things like Rockefeller never took a pill and had a homeopathic physician because he knew what he was promoting was not good for your health, which was the pharmaceutical industry in the allopathic educational system that we are stuck with today.
BL: And they’re doing this with a lot of knowledge. This is not a coincidence. For instance, why do we have so much corn syrup out there? I can give you scientific facts that back up with research what corn syrup does to us. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that corn syrup impairs short-term memory and learning abilities. They also know that genetically modified crops are not only destructive to our environment, they’re also destructive to anyone who eats them. (Please watch this interview on our YouTube channel to understand the deeper implications of what is going on.)
You brought up a good point about “Islands of the Future,” because our communities are broken and the only way to come up with solutions to some of the problems we’ve been talking about is for communities to come together in small groups.
LG: And this brings up the idea of relationships and what you talk about in your book, The Honeymoon Effect. I really liked what you and Margaret were saying in your book about relationships because Dhara and I look at our relationship as a vehicle of spiritual transformation. What I would like to do here is take a look at fractal patterns, because based on evidence I really think that we are being observed by advanced beings, call them angels, spiritual guides, interdimensional beings, or extraterrestrials. And it seems to me that we need to overcome some of these problems on our planet and start being responsible for ourselves before we can be welcomed out into the cosmic neighborhood as mature spiritual beings. So I’m just a little curious to get your feedback on how you see our relationship to an advanced consciousness and where you think our evolutionary stage is.
BL: Well, we’re at the development stage of a fetus right now. I believe we are in the final stage of metamorphosis where decisions are crucial. And the pattern of “survival of the fittest” that we’re leaving behind has been attributed to the theory of evolution, when in reality it’s a philosophical idea. Wallace, who actually wrote the theory of evolution, promoted the idea of eliminating the weakest while Darwin promoted the idea of survival of the fittest. The reason Darwin’s theory took hold is because it legitimizes the system where the upper class rules over the lower class. This reasoning is the very foundation of competition.
LG: There’s something called a “biological imperative” in what you are saying. Can you explain?
BL: The biological imperative is the drive to survive. Every organism, even bacteria, has this drive that is programmed into the system. The question is how does nature teach something like a bacteria how to survive? Nature helps out by releasing certain chemicals—it releases a chemical of pleasure when the organism is making the right behavior choices and when the organism is making choices that are threatening its survival, nature releases chemistry that’s equivalent to pain or uneasiness. This is a fundamental process in nature so when you get a visceral gut feeling about something or someone in your environment, this is that process at work.
What’s interesting is a lot of people have been reading on an energetic level that something is coming that could be a threat to their survival. But they’ve been reading it on an unconscious level, so a lot of people don’t realize why they feel stress or fear. Basically, it’s because their nervous system is reading the vibrations of the environment and releasing chemistry that would normally be read by an individual who is conscious so that person could take action. So my advice is to pay attention to your gut feelings. If we would all do this we wouldn’t keep finding ourselves in the wrong place doing the wrong things.
LG: This also brings up the importance of dealing with unfounded fears that are suppressed but we still act on them. Because with fears that we’re not conscious of, we could easily misread the same gut feelings.
BL: We have actually been programmed to misread the environment. I’ll give you an example: We are all powerful creators but people will say, “Wait, we’re all not equal, look at people like Bill Gates, they are more powerful than I am, look what they have, look at their lives.” But then I say, “Where did they get their power?” They don’t have extra power and here’s the joke. In the process of eliminating our power we have weakened ourselves and they have strengthened themselves. Through the process of disempowering the public the people who control us are able to maintain their illusion of power, but the truth is we are just as powerful as they are.
LG: I hear what you’re saying, Bruce. The reason my wife and I wrote our first book, The 12 Spiritual Laws of Recovery, was because the adolescents who I was counseling who were going through recovery were totally repulsed by the idea of giving away their power, which is the first step in the 12-step program. That’s why my first step in the book is “What You Resist Persists,” and this is the beginning of embracing an addiction and using it as a transformative process to higher consciousness. But we live in a society where organized religions and governments have indoctrinated us into a system where we easily give our power away and we get rewarded by the government through government assistance and then of course our religions give us everything from eternal life to virgins—of course this is in the next life.
So it seems to me that we need to claim our power back and step into the absolute knowledge that we are powerful spiritual beings. And this is where we come back into the most important relationship we have, the relationship we have with ourselves.
BL: In my book The Honeymoon Effect, I talk about this and the relationship we have with each other because if we can’t get our primary relationships right, how can we ever expect to go out in the community and relate in a meaningful way? The trouble is we are so unconscious and have been programmed with indoctrinated beliefs that the reality that we see is very seldom what the reality actually is. I tell people to go see The Matrix and they say, “You mean that science-fiction movie?” But I tell them it’s not science fiction; it’s a documentary about how life really is to a large degree. We have been programmed and when we take that red pill or experience the honeymoon effect and get out of the programming we see a completely different world.
In my book The Honeymoon Effect, this is exactly what I’m talking about because when you first fall in love it’s a little bit like taking the red pill. The trouble is, when our program kicks back in, the honeymoon is over. So basically what I’m saying is no matter what it takes, whether it’s taking the red pill or experiencing the honeymoon effect, stay out of the programming because the programming is meant to disempower you and it’s very, very effective.
LG: We even have a cliché saying, which is “The honeymoon is over,” and we’ve come to accept that as part of a transitional stage in a relationship.
BL: Yes, but I’ll tell you something. I’m not into that because Margaret and I wake up every morning experiencing heaven on Earth and this has been going on for 17 years. Now this has taken some work because we had to work at getting out of the program. The first step is to recognize that you’re in a program. The more we get out of the program, the more we experience freedom, happiness, and health. This is what everyone needs to do—take back your power. What is power? Power is knowledge. What’s been missing and what people like you and I have been doing is getting information out to people, which we can call self-knowledge. This, by definition, is self-empowerment and this kind of information has been kept from us to keep us powerless.
So the bottom line is simply this. When you’re in the honeymoon effect you are literally creating heaven on Earth and you can do this all of the time with this knowledge and knowing about the programming.
LG: You know some people compare waking up to waves on the ocean, waking up to the fact that even though they are individual waves they are actually part of a very large body of water. Do you think that we, as human beings, are waking up to the fact that we are part of a larger body of humanity? Peter Russell talks about this in The Global Brain.
BL: Absolutely. This is an absolute fact. Even though we see ourselves as individuals we are actually planetary cells in a much larger organism that we might call humanity. We have been evolving toward developing a community for quite some time. Take us for instance; we are a community of over 50 trillion cells living harmoniously. Every cell has health protection and food delivered, so come on, there are only 7 billion of us on this planet and if we start living harmoniously, we can live by the same truth, which is built into our very nature. When we start recognizing that we’re not individuals but part of a whole community called humanity in which each one of us is a cell within that larger organism, the idea of killing each other takes on a whole new meaning. In biology this is called autoimmune disease, and this is exactly what we’re experiencing right now because of how we see ourselves as individual cells that are not part of a larger community.
If we don’t evolve to this level of understanding, which is to realize that we are part of a larger being or entity, we are never going to be at the conscious level where we can communicate with other advanced species that have long since realized this. We need to realize that it’s the community that needs to speak in a unified voice, not individuals. So if there are extraterrestrials or advanced beings keeping an eye on things, they know that we are in the early stages of realizing this and they also know that it could go either way. So the real question is, are we going to come together as a global community or are we going to continue on this course of separation and end up going extinct at some point? This is the decision that we need to make right now at this point in our evolution.
LG: This is no doubt a pivotal point in humanity’s evolution, because once we can take this first step of coming together as a global community with one planetary voice, it’s at that point that we can start communicating with other advanced beings in a meaningful way. Of course, this is probably just one phase of many progressive steps toward universal consciousness, the next step being solar consciousness, which is the next step toward galactic consciousness and ultimately universal consciousness.
BL: And the important thing to realize is that we need to be talking to the millennial generation, which is the post-baby boomers who are 40 years old and younger. Because this is the generation that’s not going to continue with the same old story. They don’t really care about the politics and the views that politicians talk about because they are the “Internet-connected community,” which are the cells in this larger humanity. This group of people truly represents this next phase of evolution that we’ve been talking about and they are waking up to the fact that the system simply isn’t working—there are no jobs and the system as a whole is becoming dysfunctional. The significance of this is the fact that they are not following traditional beliefs that have separated us for centuries. It’s their disconnect from the structure that is the primary reason it is starting to fail and ultimately collapse. Most of these people could not care less if the stock market is crashing because they don’t even own stock and this allows them to think and live outside the box and create something new.
LG: Plus they are realizing that the stock market and the Federal Reserve are just an elaborate Ponzi scheme. This is the advantage and necessity of having a well-informed citizenry. If we can continue to be well informed and simply start unplugging from the system, it doesn’t have to be an outer revolution; it can be an inner revolution of mind, thought, and consciousness. As we stop supporting this delusion that we’ve been calling the American dream, we will start dismantling the global power structures that are destroying our planet.
This is why we are looking around for a conscious community to either be part of or to start and come together with a small group of people who are in touch with these ideals of leaving less of a footprint and truly working toward alternative energy sources, especially the alternative energy sources that we are being told by the powers that be that don’t exist. The place where we live right now has wind turbines and solar panels and we actually have a pretty good group of people living here who share this vision and it would be nice to take it to the next level.
BL: This is what Margaret and I are doing with some land we bought in New Zealand with four other couples. We’re going totally organic and making it self-sustaining, and we live in harmony with the land and with each other and support each other and grow our own food. And the important question here is how are we going to survive when the structure collapses? And the answer is community. So we’re actually being pushed toward living in small communities through necessity. This is a very critical point at this time in human evolution to understand so we can take action.
LG: A while back we interviewed Richard Heinberg, who wrote Peak Oil and End of Growth and he gave a lecture at the university. One of the things that he said in the lecture was if you’re trying to figure out if the money system will collapse or not, all you need is a calculator; it’s not rocket science. He also brought up the fact that in the total history of mankind, there has never been one instance when a fiat money system has worked. They have all failed. And I remember one of the young students stood up and asked him at the end of the lecture, “What classes should we be taking to be better prepared for the world that is ahead of us?” And he looked around the auditorium and very solemnly said, “Actually, there are very few classes that will prepare you for the world that’s ahead of you. The best thing you could do is learn how to grow food, get close to clean water, and make things that you can use for bartering.” This was a bit sobering for a lot of the students that evening, to say the least.
So Bruce, again we find ourselves coming to the end of another interview. What are your final thoughts on what we need to do to prepare ourselves for the world ahead? Because if you can’t make a relationship work with another person whom you share ideals with and a common vision, how are we going to make a relationship work with people in other countries with beliefs that are directly in conflict with ours?
BL: Well, like I talk about in the book, when you fall in love you are out of the programming and you start creating from your personal wishes and desires and your aspirations. When two people are doing this together they can literally create heaven on Earth. And just like in the movie The Matrix, we have to get out of the programming of our vulnerability and our powerlessness. This has been programmed into us and our society to manipulate and control us. Manipulation stops when we realize that we have been living in a program and we can step outside of the program. You have to know who you are, which is part of self-empowerment, and most of all you have to love yourself. Over 80 percent of the people that we’ve tested do not test positive when they are asked, “Do you love yourself?” And if you can’t love yourself, how can you let anyone else love you? If you don’t love yourself your unconscious behavior will consistently sabotage yourself and your life.